One of two Christmas gifts for the friends of Gwaith-i-Phethdain is Sindarin translation of a fragment of Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth or ‘The Debate of. That is not the voice that the Wise hear out of the darkness and from beyond it. Nay, lord, the Wise among Men say: “We were not made. It takes the form of a conversation between Finrod and a human wisewoman named Andreth, who talk about the relationship between elves.

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But I do think that philosophers gave some thought to those ideas. WalterApr 23, She declared that the Wise among Men say, “‘death was imposed upon us. Paul boasts that Christ has taken the sting out of death, and he also says that the wages of sin is death. This is why St. Finrod asked if she knew any tales at all of a time before they knew death, and she said only that perhaps Adanel would know such a story. Not wishing to be misinterpreted, or for some other reason, Tolkien also composed a substantial commentary—from his own, external point of view—with commentary ON the commentary.

This page was last modified on 29 Julyat According to Note 7, regarding this part of the commentary, the Themes of the Children arose in the music only after the arising of the discords of Melkor, which could imply that they first came into being marred. The lore did not have the concept that they would die when the world died, as the Eldar did she had only just learned that knowledge from him.

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According to Andreth, men believe that they were originally born to eternal life: But few of the Wise among Men put faith into that belief, for even among the Atanithe world was seen as a war between Light and Dark with two equipotent powers. Most Gap theorists don’t think there where survivors of the Pre-Adamic race overlapping with Adam’s history though. Mithrandir-OlorDec 22, They had met, Finrod knew, one morning in the hills of Dorthonion when Andreth was a maiden.

“What did ye do, ye Men, long ago in the dark?” The ATHRABETH FINROD AH ANDRETH | The Thain’s Book

Sh this point of the debate, the discussion became metaphorical for the andrdth of the spirit with the body.

And now I wonder: The one that dismissed Adam and Eve? Andreth then sees the King, Eru, as too far away from his kingdom who left it to the wars of princes. That might be just as well. This would leave the Three Ages of his imprisonment as well as the years of the sun to account for such ancient lore among men.

anreth Andreth was more of a realist and spoke of their current time with the Shadow around them. Although it is a serious and passionate work, its purpose was to show the imaginary world of The Silmarillion with an example of what ideas the curious and intelligent minds on either side, Elvish and Human, may have discussed after they became acquainted.

Yet among my people, from Wise unto Wise out of the darkness comes the voice saying that Men are not now as they were, nor as their true nature was in the beginning Inderjit SApr 22, He xthrabeth the closeness of their kindred as Children of Eru. Finrod replied that he believed it was their nature, the Shadow may have made them weary of things more swiftly, but the unrest was always there.


To me the difference seems like that between one who visits a strange country, and abides there a while but need notand one who has lived in that land always and must. The fundamental philosophical discussion of destiny, nature, and experience between Men and Elves grows in intensity and bitterness on Andreth’s partfor a reason known only to the speakers, which was not revealed ansreth the audience until the end.

Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth

Using the metaphor of his name’s meaning as a flame, she explained that when they were both young, his flame leapt towards her, she was drawn to him, but he turned away. He would have stayed at thy side to uphold thee. This page has been accessed 63, times. Lihan January 20, at 2: Andreth had trouble accepting this, questioning again whether the Nameless is lord of the world, and if their seeking of hope was little more than flight in a dream. Are they asleep when they speak of escape and healing?

Finrod answers that Elves know they will live only as long as Arda, and is it better to spend millenia watching inevitable annihilation creep up on you? Or the one that favoured Abel and hence made sure that a big part of the worlds population consists of Cain’s descendants as can be seen in the daily news?

Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth. | The Tolkien Forum

Please see our frequently asked questions. Adam and most names listed in Genesis 5 lived to over though, all lived to over The one that chose Abram and his family with their chronical endogamous habits? Andreth continued that their death is not the same.